Episode 11 - Wyn Doran Sings through the Heart
Singer-songwriter Wyn Doran, nominated Female Performer of the Year, talks and sings about healing trauma, loving all the versions of herself, and finding her way into the Divine Feminine.
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Transcript
Welcome, welcome!
Hello Anni, thanks for having me.
Oh my goodness, first of all it fills my whole body with joy to see you again. We haven't seen each other for a year and a half or so and but the the time doesn't diminish the warmth and fondness for for you and I think um I'll share all about you in a minute but just for anyone listening, so Wyn and I met at a at a retreat um led by Kristin Hanggi whom I've had on the podcast before and um the first I don't know if you know this but the first moment I saw you I just like immediately loved you I was like oh oh this woman.
Thank you so much!
You were so warm and real and um then as I got to know you and hear a little bit of your music and what you do just so much um admiration and and gratitude for you so, I'm just really glad you said yes to coming on the podcast today.
Oh it's my honor truly.
Well let me tell the world about you in case they don't know.
All right.
Um nominated female performer of the year well can we just take a second with that how amazing is that? By the New England Music Awards, Wyn Doran is labeled a force to be reckoned with. Wyn was classically trained in voice from a young age and complete competed internationally with choirs singing in the Sydney Opera House in Australia and Carnegie Hall in New York. Wyn recently expanded into a new chapter under the name Wyn and the White Light. I can hardly wait for you to tell us about that with bassist Lucia Minow and drummer Heidi Tierney. All members of the band have faced their mortality in the wake of medical trauma, uniting to lift the message of Wyn's songs, which confront the experience of living with chronic illness and strength found in adversity.
Whoo. Their highly anticipated debut album, Luck, is labeled as a journey through the divine feminine and near death experience. Singles from the album began releasing with the autumn equinox in September 2023 with the full album landing this March.
Boom.
Mic drop.
Mic drop. Absolutely. Oh, so where do you want to go today? What are we going to talk about? We know that we both very much are drawn to the divine feminine. I know that I am so intrigued by your music and just you as a person. So all the things, all the things, let's get into it. Where do you want to go first?
Oh, what a good question. I mean, I guess where my mind is taking me is our time together is what really started the first chapter of this album, that retreat.
Wow.
It's a monumental point. I drove home and the whole album kind of downloaded in front of my eyes from our weekend. And life has been a trip since then.
I did not know that. I knew you played "How the West Was Won" that night. So some of these songs were already in existence, but then the whole album kind of appeared and like here's how I come together.
What happened was I had been writing for at that point three years from 2020 to fall 2023, feverishly writing, feeling this desire to have an album, but feeling like I couldn't see what it was or if it was. And I had written probably 50 songs. They felt like puzzle pieces. I couldn't see how they came together. And then we had this magical weekend of diving in to our own soul and our own journeys. And when I drove home, 10 of the songs of the 50 on this ride from upstate New York to where I live in New Hampshire, I could see literally where they sat in a journey and I pulled over in Vermont and put my little demos into those chapters and drove the rest of the ride, listened to it, and I was like, I think I actually have an album. And then I showed it to the two women who are now my band mates the next weekend. And they were like, you have an album and we never changed the order or anything. And it really was kicked off from, and I didn't understand what was happening. Like it was all based on feel. And that was about a year and a quarter from ago. Or time is weird right now.
Time is weird right now, isn't it?
But ever since then, I knew that was the story and slowly the story is telling me why it's the story and I'm feeling to me different pieces of why, which has kind of been my own journey with the divine feminine. I'm acting on impulse, clarity in my body, saying yes without knowing why I was saying yes and then later it revealing to me so many gifts and rationale.
The reason comes, yeah, the why comes later after you have said yes.
Yeah. Yeah. The heart yes comes first. And then the brain yes, the brain which can't wrap itself around like the heart logic is coming much later.
Wow. Okay, I have so many questions.
What did I even just say? Did it make sense?
No, it did. Oh, yes, it makes my brain light up. Okay. How did you first come to know that this, I guess we're talking about intuition. You said impulse or instinct, something like that, something from within. How did you come to know that as how the divine feminine is and works in us? How did you put those two together is my question.
Oh, what a beautiful question. And it probably came later. I feel like it's been knocking for a while. And then I actually, Kristin Hanggi, shout out over and over again. So where do I begin with this? She had a separate retreat on masculine, divine masculine and feminine about a year later. And in Italy and I did not plan on going. I was in the thick of recording this album and getting it together and about three weeks before that retreat happened they gave away a free spot and I, I saw it in the middle of like a recording session and I was like I think that's my spot, and I um you kind of wrote why and I wrote the story of this album up until that point and it was literally the retreat was three days after the album was complete and I just got that spot, went off to Italy, and I think that I think it was that time that really brought the divine feminine into my psyche and I started to unpack how much the past year had really been that journey. And I'm still on that journey. And even you asking that question is helping me to frame where those words came from. They feel so right. And they're against so much of what my, like, academic brain wants to fight.
Yes. And you have, I'd love for you to talk about that a little bit. You have this experience with academia extraordinaire. Can you maybe just go there a little bit? How is that different? And what are you noticing?
Yeah. So I mean, I was, I grew up ready to be business woman, et cetera. My both my parents were in the corporate world. And then in parallel, I also grew up with a chronic illness that kept testing my boundaries of, I was a highly functioning student, like always obsessed with getting straight A's. And then my body was also failing me. And in a way, I was using, I was using school as like a way of just surviving. Like I, my brain would just say, go back to school and get all the A's when you can, and then my body would retreat again.
Then I went to college for business. I started to process all of that bodily, all of the trauma from all the medical issues. And I decided to go back to school again. And I went to Harvard for a pre-med program in hopes of assisting people like me who are fighting through chronic illness without answers.
And the most interesting, beautiful thing about Harvard was that is what really cracked open this intuitive side of me.
At Harvard?
Yes. So some of my courses there were Mind, Body, Medicine. I, a lot of the coursework would, or yeah, a lot of the coursework kind of had, have these brilliant minds at the forefront of where medicine hasn't caught up to be yet everywhere. But the teachers there, really got it in a way that exploded my brain. And so in a sense, they kind of infused this more magical, intuitive, mindfulness side of humanity that now I would intertwine with the defined feminine.
But to like business woman, when she was very closed off of it until she was at one of the leading universities in the world hearing otherwise, honestly.
Wow. I'm just sitting with that. First of all, so curious about those courses. And so enlivened that a Harvard medical course would take you to where you're connecting with the divine feminine. That's just beautiful. It makes me wanna just send them roses.
Me too, in hindsight. I'm super providing the space for me to unpack it.
Yeah. Yeah. And also then juxtaposing that with, like you said the business woman mindset that you came in with, where, I don't know much about the business world, but the little I've been exposed to seems like there's room for improvement with the intuitive gifts.
Correct. Correct.
And so how would you say you have changed, grown, evolved, expanded from where you started to the you that you are right now?
Everything's different. Everything's different now. I really feel that, so I was in school, it was 10 years ago, roughly, nine, 10 years ago that I went to Harvard for the few years that I did. And the person that entered that is so different now. I just feel that I was put, I guess, it opened my mind to these gifts that I never...What am I trying to say? I think that going to courses like in mindfulness, another thing that they did was their hospital programs had energy work and that was something that I went into purely because they recommended it.
Okay.
And I just shifted, it took a while. It was a messy transition the past 10 years. I'm still not all the way on the other side, but it kind of propelled me into new gifts and a new face of reality.
New gifts and a new face of reality. Oooh. Ooooh. And I'm curious if you were to go back and have a cup of coffee with yourself at the point where this journey started. Oh. To sit with, I see the look on your face. Tell me, what are you thinking? What are you saying to her? What are you reassuring her about?
Yeah, she is just the saddest, saddest young girl. She's so sad. And I have this album in a way has been kind of my way of nurturing all of the wounded pieces of me from varying chapters of my life. And she was one of the darkest. And I have visited her in a sense to let her know that everything's going to be okay. Don't worry so much. And she was so brave, but she was so hurt. But things are going to unroll in a way that she can't even fathom. So, to stay excited for that.
That's beautiful. I love this conversation so much. I have this conversation with lots of people. If you could look back and talk to yourself at a certain point, what would you want them to know? And what you have just expressed is almost always what I hear. It's going to be okay. It's okay not to worry. I see your bravery and I commend you for it. And you don't have to be brave all the time. Deep breaths.
Yeah.
Better days ahead.
True.
Yeah. You know while you were talking about this, I was thinking, so you were setting up, you were in the track for medicine, for practicing medicine.
Mm -hmm.
And to me, your music is medicine. It is medicinal.
Thank you.
And I just am marveling at how you were saying this album has helped you to heal. Right, I think I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that's what I remembered you saying.
Yeah.
And so you are offering your own medicine first to yourself and then as a gift to anyone else who wants to hear it.
Yes.
And so you are, in whatever way practicing your own kind of medicine. Maybe not with an MD, but maybe with a microphone and a guitar or ukulele and all the things that you play and make music with.
Thank you so much for saying that. I can honestly say when I set off on this journey, before the album was written, I had written on a piece of paper like what I wanted to manifest and it was to heal the world through music. And that has remained an intention. And so it's just really beautiful for the way you framed it because it's true. And I can really see that it was meant first and foremost to heal me and it's still doing the work. But yeah, with the hope that if you start with yourself in all things, I think, if you start with yourself, that then you can radiate that outwards to community.
Agreed 100% in my experience, that is spot on first myself, put the mask on first and then serve it to another person.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is there a song right now asking to be played at this moment?
Yeah, let's let's play "Hold on for Another Day," which is the first.
That's what I was thinking too, but I didn't want to say because this is about you, but that one is just right here, like knock knock.
It's the first song I ever wrote. Even though it's one of the most recent that I ever released, and I wrote it when I was that wounded girl. And I now believe that it was a future version of me coming to that girl with that song for her.
Oh.
And I turned it down year after year. I kept waking up with it in my head, and I kept thinking, like that song's not good enough for whatever reason. And last year, when it came back in another dream, four or five years later, I said, okay, it's your time. I'm going to go and record it now. So.
Wow. I have full body goosebumps. When you first shared this song, I don't remember how I got ahold of it. I listened to it. I knew who to send it to. I mean, like I was like, oh, I have people that this song is for today. And so let's let's hear this song in case there's someone else who could use a little bit of this medicine.
Thank you.
So here's "Hold on for Another Day?" Hold on.
Yeah. "Hold on for Another Day."
Okay.
Mama won't you burn my name away and leave it in the dust
I can't remember where I am going
Mama won't you cut my heart out and sit it out to rust
The blood that once coursed in these veins ain't flowin'
Broken bones and hearts like stones raised me to the world
We all knew they would catch up to me someday
I catch the eyes as I walk by of strangers down the hall
Seems we're all just looking for our own way
We all need something simple at the end of our days
To belong to, right a wrong to in this world
We all need to believe at the end of our days
there is magic in the tragedies we face
Hold on for another day
Hold on for another day
They told me to build these walls and fill em' up with things
You create the world that you belong to
That can't explain the flames that came and ripped em' all from me
But it takes a mound of dust to catch a clear view
We all need something simple at the end of our days
To belong to, right a wrong to in this world
We all need to believe at the end of our days
there is magic in the tragedies we face
Hold on for another day
Hold on for another day
Hold on for another day
Hold on for another day
The moon sits high and bright tonight
She shines a light on me
I hope I find the courage not to quit
I see the stranger down the hall whose smile sings to me
Decide what to be and just go be it
Broken bones and hearts like stones raised me to the world. We all knew they would catch up to me someday.
I don't know that there's anything more profound than recognizing how our hurts have played a part in our growth, in our journey. Obviously, we have a lot of healing work to do, but I'm just thinking about the different versions of you, the different versions of me, past people that we have been. And I had this moment listening to your song, thinking about you coming and cradling your former self and singing this as a lullaby to her. Really, hold on for another day. That's beautiful. I am so glad you gave birth to that song.
Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, this song, it really has been a journey. Like, it's one of the more mystical ones in how it is that lullaby. And yeah, just any time I thought I was hitting rock bottom again, because unfortunately I think some of us have the sad privilege of realizing that a rock bottom once might not actually be as far down as we can go until a couple years later when we're brought to our knees again. And this song has been just that, like that recurring lullaby that wouldn't let go of me. Even though I played it, wrote it, played it for a week, put it away, never listened to it again, and then would be in hardship and it would come into my head as clear as day again. So, I'm really grateful for that relationship with the song and I'm really grateful I recorded it kind of in a state of another all -time low. And it just, it's been a gift. And I was very happy to finally feel free enough within myself to put it out there as well.
Isn't that just like the divine feminine to come to us in, like you're saying, in another all-time low, what you've walked through, and to offer us the medicine during that time, that is again first for us. And then if we choose, there is plenty to go around.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Wow. So that had to come from a deep place within you, a deep ancient place for that song to come through you in in the times of distress and be born in tears, right?
Yeah. Yeah, I think I finally wrapped my head around it this past year. Because when it came to me originally, I didn't understand it. It's kind of like where are these words coming from? And now I feel like they're coming from me now.
Mm-hmm. And they were then too, just you maybe didn't know the full extent of how much.
Right.
It reminds me of, so I've been in this group of wonderful women for a while and we're studying a book about maturing in our faith and our walk in our lives. And something we were actually discussing this morning relates in that part of maturing is the hard moments when we would like to exit stage left from whatever situation and we say, okay, this is really hard and where else would I go? I have to stay here and I don't know if you remember that little song from when we were kids at summer camp or something that going on a bear hunt, gonna catch a big one, right? And all these obstacles, you can't go around them, you can't go under them, you have to go through them. So that's something that my friends and I say to one another, it's a bear hunt, gotta go through it. And that part of deepening our roots and growing into ourselves even more fully is exactly what that song embodies, holding on, staying, being present even to the sometimes excruciating pain that is our story. I mean, for me, really, it's about having hope. There's something worth holding on for.
Yeah, yeah, I got chills as you were talking. I really think, especially this last year, it sounds cheesy to say the only way out is through, I know that that is the saying.
But it might find it on a bumper sticker somewhere.
It's so true, though. And what I found in the past year, like in laying down that song, and I guess I'll give a little bit more context in that. I had two miscarriages in the past year, and they brought me to really, really dark places. But for the first time, I had known darkness. My story with chronic illness had me in and out of darkness. And for the most part, most of my life, I fought the darkness. I had so much resistance, so much anger. And when I was brought to my knees this past year, I finally was at a point in my healing journey where I viewed myself as like a wounded child. And I was able to mother myself at the same time and being like, okay, what do you need? You just need to be in bed for four days? Do it. You do want some soup? We'll get some or we'll call and ask for help. And most of my life I wouldn't ask for help. And I would be so mean to myself if I were depressed and wanted to stay in bed.
And everything changed when I stopped hating myself for that and I actually allowed, just allowed it. And when I allowed it, what I think would have been longer periods, granted they weren't short periods this past year, but I believe that they shrank because I was so compassionate to myself and not mean.
Yes.
So how do you go through it? How do you just acknowledge that you're in it? Hey, life is really hard right now. And okay, in this darkness, how do I give myself all of the love? How do I ask people for love if I can't give it all to myself? Yeah, I guess this song felt like I finally got it in that sense too.
It does feel so kind. Compassionate is maybe even a stronger word, what I mean to yourself first. And that I think is the essence of the divine feminine again.
Yeah. Yeah.
How she is with us, teaching us first to be nurtured and then allowing us to nurture the world.
Yes.
In the same way.
Yes.
And I think for me, I've had to learn that I had permission to be that gentle with myself. I thought that, you know, strong women probably are kind of hard on themselves. And they demand a lot of performance and they need to look a certain way. I mean, all the things. And it has been so relieving, like taking off what I imagine it feels like, I've never worn a corset, but I imagine it feels like to undo it and be able to breathe fully. That's how I feel in this awareness that I can be my own mother and nurture my own self in the way I know I need. And then like you're saying, if I don't even have that, I have permission to ask other people to give it to me and I can find what I need through through either of those avenues or You know in some of my experiences connecting with God I am learning that there isn't scarcity of Compassion, gentleness, nurture, the the care that I've needed. I just didn't know I was allowed to have it.
Oh my gosh. Yes yep, and yes, you are. Yes.
Yes, I had an experience. I don't know if you know that my mother passed away when I was 29. And I miss her dearly. We had a difficult relationship. And it ended well, but not nearly as well as I would like it to have ended. So it It feels largely like some threads didn't get to get tucked in, yeah, the way that I would like, so they were just kind of dangling out for a while. Yeah, and then I decided to connect with her in whatever way I could this was years later This was just a couple years ago. I had this experience where I wanted to have a conversation with her, not sure how that works. Not sure how not sure how anything works really but so I decided to imagine what would I say if she could hear me in one form or another. And do you know what I told her? I wanted her to know, "Mama I am so good to myself. I just want you to know I have learned to be really good to myself and even though you're not here to nurture me and love me the way she really was good at doing that part. I am able to do that for me now and so I want you to know that."
And that felt so good to be able to say, to know first of all, yeah, I am good to me. And then I was thinking with my own daughters, what would I want from them? What would I want them to tell me one day?
And it would be exactly that. I want to know that you're good to you. More than anything else, that's what I want to know.
I love that on so many levels. Like, I just look, like picture a world where everybody could just say that, you know, I feel like so many people are so mean to themselves.
Yes. And I think that's where the troubles really are rooted.
Yeah. Yeah.
All the sadness we see.
Absolutely. And I really love, even before you said it, I was like, well, you can still have that conversation with her. And then I was happy that that ended up with you did.
Yep. Yep, I did.
I, that's, you know, one of those mystical, grey areas that yes, we don't understand, which I think is in essence a divine feminine element. But I also feel stronger and stronger, the older I get that we can hold these conversations out of space and time and have a certain faith that others are receiving it.
Yep. That in some way that I don't need to define or explain.
Right.
My mother received what I was sharing and I felt very much that she, I felt her smile and her warmth and her acceptance of that in a very real way that maybe years and years before science dares to try to explain that to us. But yeah, like you're saying, what we are waking up to is knowing that that's real.
Yeah. Yeah.
I have a desire.
Yeah.
Since we're in this space. Yes. Can you tell us about the white light?
Yes.
No accident that's what your group is named. Please. I'd love to hear you talk about the white light.
So, this, yeah, the name in true divine feminine fashion, the name presented itself before I fully understood why, but I knew it was right. I had kind of a list on my phone of potential band names once I, once me and Lucia and Heidi kind of were all on board that they were going to be backing this upcoming album and it was kind of stepping into this new chapter. So, we were thinking about band names and whenever white light came to me it just felt like, oh, I think that's it. And I typed it and then my friend who you also know, a lovely woman by the name of Victoria Buda reached out to me and said, hey, I just bought my first set of Oracle cards. Can I do a reading for you? She had this new deck called the White Light Oracle, and she put it on the screen and I was like, yes, okay. Okay, so that's my band. And then the more that the journey has unfolded, I've seen these elements of what our mission is as a band, which is to heal and inspire the greater community to face and claim their darkness in order to transmute it into light. And I just, I don't know what else to say about it. It's been really trippy. The different ways that I've gotten affirmation that this name is so embedded in the music and the album. And it feels like one of those little pieces of this journey that was coming from a different place that I said yes to because my heart said yes to and continues to feel correct.
Yep. Yep. All that you're talking about is what we who have dabbled in the charismatic world would call confirmation. I share charismatic, not roots, but part of my journey has intertwined with some lovely charismatic folk. And I've picked up a little bit of the lingo. I love that word because it's something where you know something and then it shows up again to say yes, you were right. And it continues to teach you that like you were saying, we can grow into just knowing these things and questioning them less and less. Not that I ever feel like I've got all the answers, but that I am definitely aware I'm being led on a journey. And it's a good journey. Sometimes it's very hard, but it's the right place for me to be.
Yes.
Mm. So is there a song that wants to be played right now?
Yes, which one? Um, actually I would love to play "Statue," um, because this song has only recently landed for me, so it's kind of along the lines of what we're talking about in, um, in Unfold, in me saying a resounding yes, and now I'm only starting to get the depths of its meaning, and it's taken me on quite a ride.
Mm.
This one's not out yet.
Okay, I was gonna say, is this part of the forthcoming album or is it something else?
Yes, it is coming out on February 22nd.
Oh.
Um, and it was a collaboration with a great artist friend of mine named Josh Knowles, um, and we wrote it together in 2020 over Zoom, and I could feel the healing in its music. Um, it definitely healed a deep part of me, so it was like a yes, yes, what is this?
Mm -hmm.
Um, but I'm very excited about it.
Okay. Ooh. Let's hear "Statue."
Can’t spit it out
what I'm trying to say
There's a thought
in my heart
That won’t formulate
on my tongue
An alien metallic taste
Slipping into a plane where no one can wake you
now you’re just another statue I wave to
In a wave of sirens rushing to safety
Will this be the bed that eviscerates me?
Chemical drips that a stranger had made
Mirrors don’t show what a horror it paints
In your eyes a storm where no one resonates
Slipping into a plane where no one can wake you
now you’re just another statue I wave to
In a wave of sirens rushing to safety
this can’t be the bed that eviscerates me
Who's beautiful message is that at the end? Is that someone you know?
That is my mom. Oh, yeah.
Wow. So do you want to talk? I'd love to hear about the story, how this song came to be.
Yeah, yes, I'd love to share. So Josh Knowles and I were meeting like every week on Zoom to write music together and he came to that session with like the first line, can't spit it out what I'm trying to say. And he told me about a friend of a friend who had just had a stroke who had lost capability in their body and to speak and his heart was going out to them. And as he shared this story with me, it unlocked a memory of when I had a stroke in college and had a similar experience where I lost the ability to communicate and it was one of kind of the deeper seated medical traumas that at that time I had not processed at all. And so we wrote that song together in like one or two hours. And I like we when we were writing together, we had no real agenda. Like the point was just be creative, not worry about what the next steps are. But it was unlocking something in me and I was obsessed, which is why I held on to it at three years later. I was like, Hey, Josh, is it okay if I record this on my album? Like I need it. But I didn't fully understand like what everything it was again one of those moments everything felt right that we were writing down on paper.
When I brought it to the producer he was kind of like well is there a story here I don't really see it. And then my bandmate Lucia she and I both come from very turbulent backgrounds with medical trauma and she was kind of shedding even more light onto it of like when we're in that state of medical trauma there are two voices within us there's the one going through it. There's the one observing like ourselves going through it and there are all these different dimensions so it doesn't really matter if I'm shifting that voice throughout this narrative in song and it was kind of with her putting words to that that I found empowerment.
Yes.
In this particular song.
I'm just now having a moment where I think I'm realizing that the meaning here of the words mirrors don't show what a horror it paints because you can only see in the mirror that, you know, outside not what you're experiencing on the inside at all.
Yeah, exactly. Wow. And then.
There's more.
And then one week ago today I was leading a workshop where I've been merging the music of this album with bot like yoga moves, more restorative yoga moves and journaling and self-reflection.
And when this song came up for that workshop, it actually took on a whole new meaning to me which was, goes back to our conversation earlier when we were observing different stages of ourselves growing up that we're returning to.
And to me then I was seeing, like me bringing up you know my high school self, helping her through something and now you're just another statue I wave to and like she can now go to rest like I've given her her stage to talk about and unpack and acknowledge her hardships.
I've consoled her. I love you now go go rest.
You go rest. I'm okay. I'm good to myself. You are okay to rest. Yeah.
Yeah. So that's the new. New eight day old.
New confirmation.
Ride that that song is taking myself on. So it just has felt like a very magical piece that I had a lot of pleasure creating and journey with these past four years.
It seems to me this treasure box for you that you just continue to find new gems. Oh, I'm so glad I said yes to this. I didn't know this would be in here. Yay!
Yeah. Yeah. And to me that is a huge piece of the divine feminine. That is just. Yeah. All of these life choices and all of these things I said yes to without understanding why, just knowing that I had to for some reason, reveal, you know, sometimes years later, sometimes a week later, sometimes a decade later, that they had a reason outside of space and time.
Outside of space and time. I love that.
I feel like that's a fine feminine just doesn't have that aspect. And so that's a challenge for us living in this linear reality is trusting her.
Yes.
She's not, yeah, working in the linear.
Yeah, she functions in a different plane.
Yeah.
You know, I don't know if you have, if you like Disney movies, but have you seen Frozen 2?
I have not. I saw Frozen 1.
Okay. Well, if you so choose, there is a moment where I always call her the wrong name because I know somebody in real life with a similar name.
Elsa, the older sister Elsa. She visits a, it's in memory form, a frozen statue of herself from the previous movie. It's this beautiful moment where she walks by, sees this statue and you can see on her face at once compassion for that previous self, and also like she rolls her eyes at it a little bit. She's like, oh, sweetheart. You. Okay. I see you in that space and I know who you were and I've grown. And it's just a very, it's like maybe a three second snippet, but it's my favorite part of the whole movie because it's exactly the that it's a statue of yourself. I'm not there anymore. I have grown. There's life on the other side of that that I was sure that was a full stop at that point. And I can wave to the statue.
Yes. Oh, I love it. It's literal. Yeah, putting the song in literal terms, I'm going to find that three second clip.
Yeah, you're you're going to love that. I don't remember where it is in the film to tell you to even search for it. But
I'll just watch the whole thing. I think maybe there's
I don't know. I don't even know how old you are. That's so funny. But I grew up in the in the early 80s. And there's a an Easter egg sort of nugget in there for the parents of the children who have dragged them to this movie, right? And there's this whole like throwback to the 1980s song that Kristoff sings and it just lights my fire. It's so funny. So you'll have to let me know if you do end up choosing to watch that.
Will do well. Oh my god. Oh my god.
Oh, how fun. Hmm.
Well, I'm curious because anybody who knows me is like, oh, she won't stop asking questions about divine feminine, divine femininity.
I love it.
This is like all I talk about it at home and with friends. Oh, well, did you know that's because patriarchy? Anyway, I'm sure I sound like a broken record, but.
Not to me.
Right. I know, then you get with certain people, you're like, oh, I don't, I don't need to explain that to you.
As you are, I don't know about for you. I feel like I'm getting to know Her, She Who Has Always Been, but it's like a coming home to Her. Like I've always known Her, but there were parts of me that weren't allowed to know Her.
I was, you know, expressly forbidden to even wonder if I had a divine mother, because of course we have a divine father within my sphere, right? We have a divine brother and then we have this spirit that we don't know what it is, but it's certainly not allowed.
Well, yes, yes, She is. I've been learning all about Her. There's so much evidence. Okay, so as I am learning about Her, finding She's been here all along, but I get to discover Her anew, discover things about Her.
I'm also discovering that I am this might sound, um, egotistical, but I, it's not. Um, I'm discovering that I'm like Her, like I'm like my Mama. And, um, you know, within Christianity, we talk about everybody's made in the image of God, but it's always a male image.
And, um, I am finding so much healing and going, oh, and also I have, um, characteristics of Hers that have, you know, She's given me much like when people used to say, oh, you look just, you know, like this relative or that relative.
I am, I am delighted to find that I have traits and characteristics that are like my Mama. Yeah.
So if you are experiencing the same thing, um, what similarities are you finding? Where, where are you like, oh. That's from you, I have that.
Yeah, I think I'm on a slightly different part of my journey with it. But in a way where I'm learning about Her and I am working to stoke the fire within myself to honor those qualities in my own body and mind. Um, so I feel in my heart, you know, She's been here all along. I feel that really I'm only awakening to that in the past two years, but with the beautiful, magical path of seeing all of the seeds of my past of, of Her presence.
Um, but I think that I'm like just seeing like, I feel that everything within Her comes from the heart space and that I'm trying, I've been really cognizant of trying to grow that muscle within myself as opposed to like, like, I mean, it's kind of a little bit of one in the same of saying like, has it been there all along?
It's probably been there all along. But to me, I'm like, Oh, I can see that this muscle wants to awaken. Um, yeah.
Yeah. That resonates with me. It's both eternal. So outside space and time to borrow your words and, um, it is like waking up to it. Oh, here it is. And then, and then giving space for it then to expand as we become aware of it. Yes. Okay, so you studied medicine. Do you know if this is true? Somebody told me that the very first cell when we are first, what are we first a zygote, I don't even remember, but the very first cell that forms a what?
I said me neither. Oh, okay, okay. You
Whatever the fancy term is, that the first cell of our existence is a heart cell.
Oh,
I don't know whether that's true.
Love if that's true. I love if that's true. Just thinking about actually, I do believe that's true. To get maybe a little morbid, but with my miscarriages, like with I learned about the electric pulse. And I think it was because it's like the first thing to develop was that cardiac muscle before it was going to grow into more. So actually that, that,
There's confirmation!
Knowledge, which is so beautiful to be framed that way that we all start from the heart and then everything is kind of like dividing and multiplying and, and evolving into every other piece of us.
Right. That makes us human or, you know, for our animal friends, I'm sure it's the same way.
It all starts with the heart.
But that feels right to me.
Yeah.
That our origin is in our heart.
Yeah.
And that when you're talking about getting to know divine feminine, that's where you're experiencing that She is.
Right.
Is that, am I saying that right? Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. I have a friend who gave me a statue for Christmas and I'll have to send you a picture of it. It's a 10 minute story. I won't, I won't go into all of it right now, but it's blowing my mind that it's even here. It's a handmade statue. I don't know where she got it. She didn't make it. She found it someplace. And it's about the size of, I don't know, grapefruit. And it's this beautiful, aged woman wrapping her arms around her lap and providing space. I'm trying to show you, but the lights in this little tiny podcast closet aren't good. She's like holding, like holding room. And her arms are just out in this invitational embrace. And I was like, oh my goodness, I love this statue so much. Thank you. This actually is very meaningful. And I would have to take a long time to tell you why. But thank you. I took her home. I placed a candle in her lap where her arms are encircling it. And her face turns into a smile. It's the most incredible thing that this little statue, she looks like she's asleep when there's no light in her lap. And then you light a candle. And the smile spreads across her face. It's exquisite.
Anyway, it's a physical manifestation of how I experience, I call her Mama God. You've probably heard me call her that. This holding space and, of course, the arms being an extension of heart. And there's a lot there medically and metaphysically, too.
Yeah.
And encircling whatever comes into her loving embrace. And then also being, her being changed by the light being there is really speaking to me right now that, that Mama God is actually impacted by my presence in her lap. She enjoys me being there and it lights her up into a smile.
Yeah. Oh, that's so beautiful.
Right?
So beautiful. Wow.
Yeah. Yeah. So I guess when you say, for you, your experience of her is from the heart, is, what did you say?
She's all heart or she comes from the heart or what were your words?
Yeah, I think.
We'd have to go back and read the transcript.
I feel when I speak through my heart and to my heart, that is my communication with her.
That's where she is. Yeah. Yeah. That feels right.
Yeah. Yeah. When I go up here to my head, that doesn't feel like her.
I know. My poor sweet head. I know. It's so tired. Yeah. It's done the lion's share of the thinking and feeling all the things for my whole life.
Right. I know.
You know, especially in, in the context I've been brought up in, like this emphasis on thinking really hard and deeply. And I love to think deeply but I also am finding how wonderful it is to get someplace else in my body and just feel and experience.
Yeah.
Be in my heart for some time.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's waiting. It's just waiting. It's happy and ready. Yep. Whenever we are.
And lights up with a smile as soon as we sit down.
Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.
And also has the patience of the most beautiful patience in the world. So just patiently wait for us to tune in whenever we do.
Yes. Endlessly patient with us. I find I'm dwelling on that word. It's funny, not funny you should bring that up. I've really been thinking lately about the patience of God. And how I don't understand it and if I were to write the script right now God's patience would wear out and God would say that's it I will solve all of the problems of the world right now I will end the suffering and I will stop the bleeding I'm done with this and and then we would just live in this you know outside space and time however that works and When I take this to God, I just like get a like Oh I know Right, I know and it kind of it brings me back to that space of like you were saying The faith, Or maybe it was someone else who was saying it's all a jumble in my mind. Somebody in my day today was saying The faith to know there's more to the story like I don't I don't understand everything right now. It doesn't all make sense like I can't pencil out the math of the the children dying in the Middle East, just senselessly right I can't I can't reconcile that and My mind wants to go okay God. Maybe you should stop being patient and and the suffering. But then I keep coming back to this There's more that I don't know and like you keep saying I Say yes to something and then a long while later learn about The why behind it and I have the aha, but eventually, not now, and so I guess what I'm trying to get to here is what I would like to do is sit down In her lap and be patient along with her because I guess if she can be patient knowing all Then so can I.
Yeah Yeah, it's so hard It's so hard living in our everyday reality, I think, to recenter ourselves with that.
That's definitely a struggle I have too. But I think my best days when I'm feeling so, such a weight of the world are when, you know, I go and sit in nature with my heart.
Yep.
Like, that's the best medicine there is, which to me is, in essence, connecting with her.
In essence. Absolutely. Well, speaking of the best medicine. Can we hear one more song, please?
Yes.
Before we hear my credits song, which features you, so we'll hear two more songs from you, but can we hear one more here and now, please?
Yes. Let's end with, yeah, let's end with "How the West Was Won."
Yeah, I was feeling that one too. What do you want to say about this one?
Um, just this wasn't this, whether this was with her or some other divine being. This song came through me in 45 minutes, and I wrote the words and they were not my words. Okay. And I love them.
This came from above.
I really, um, this is how the album ends. So the album's really a journey through hardship and grief, and this is how it culminates. So, um, but we released it first, which Kristin Hanggi told me in true divine feminine fashion, nonlinear fashion that makes all the sense. She told me.
So that is not surprising at all. Yes. The last shall be first. All right. So here is, this is the first song I ever heard you sing. By the way, I don't know if I ever told you this, but you brought out your ukulele around the fire and it was sitting there. And Kristin, I think, was like, so how about if we hear a song? And so you stood up and sang this into the night. And it was this divine howl that I heard coming out of you, just this raw energy and, um, I don't know, it was a moment outside of space and time, just listening to it.
So I hope it will be for everyone else who's listening and "How the West Was Won."
There’s a heartbeat in the floorboard
Four score and seven going ignored
We’re all searching for a gold cure
Wire fence on Ellis Island
Shedding blood to wear a diamond
Are we ever gonna find it?
We ain’t ever gonna find it
Tell me what Simon Says
I’ll follow him into the depths so I don’t have to lead
One step through the looking glass
I face the aura of a past that’s haunting me
And it’s got me saying
Who do we have to prove our worth to?
‘Cause minds come undone as we toast
How the West Was Won
La da da da da da da-ah
La da da da da da da ah
La da da da da da da-ah
La da da da da da da-ah
Tracing the circles
Laughing at patterns
And concrete solutions
And if I start to question
Does it make me human
Or does it speak of evolution?
Does it speak of revolution?
Who do we have to prove our worth to?
‘Cause minds come undone as we toast
How the West Was Won
La da da da da da da-ah
La da da da da da da ah, oooh
La da da da da da da-ah
La da da da da da da-ah
Oh, I really want to be front row at one of your concerts. That's uh,
Yeah, can't wait. We'll make it happen.
Bucket list item In the cosmos I know a place you could stay oh That's amazing, thank you.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh Thank you Thank you Wyn for your beautiful open heart and the medicine that you are taking first yourself and then offering me and anyone who will listen. It's a gift.
Thank you so so much and thank you for having me what a beautiful conversation.
Indeed I can hardly wait to start editing it just so I can go back and listen again.
Well many blessings.
Thank you. You also with you. Thank you.
